Tobi Lütke's Wild AI Experiments & Shopify's Future

All right. All right. So, we're going to get into a lot of things today. Before we do that, because I have uh the microphone, I can do whatever I want. Um I want to throw it back for a few minutes. I know you're not a nostalgic person the way I am necessarily. Um, but again, I have the microphone, so >> true. It's true. >> I can do whatever I want. All right, first and foremost, raise your hand. >> Anyway, like, by the way, nice shot. Um um good start on that with like the meeting Harley and Tobin coffee shop. >> Pretty good, right? That was our firstite really >> in in in in Ottawa, Canada. Which is by the way, like you made that sound like this super wome thing. Like the the trick was the moment you said that you never had to have that meeting because no one >> no one want to come to Ottawa. Exactly. And now look, we have 2,000 of them here. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Toby, I think it worked. Can't believe it, but I think it worked. Okay, show of hands right now if this is your very first partner event ever. Wow. [cheering] [cheering] [applause] [applause] Thank you for being here. Raise your hand if you've been to a Unite event. Okay, I got some OG's here. Yeah, of course you were there. All right, raise your hand if you were at the very first Unite event 10 years ago. >> All right, that's amazing. Now, here's Now, here's one more. >> Raise your hand if you were at the legendary garden party of 2017. >> Look at this. >> I think you have to give some context to

that. >> You want to do it? But like I I remember so it's like so okay I'm I'm not sure if you have a bit on this because you know >> you go you go ahead you're the boss. You do whatever you want. >> But like so this was actually was one of my favorite things uh like in in the entire shop history actually. Um because um so we had your night first day we did in San Francisco. Um and um was actually I think a phenomenal event at least uh you know just like I think it like all came together. Um, pretty sure we talked about Remember Me on stage, which then eventually got renamed to Chape. So, >> that's doing pretty well, I think. Yeah, keep that going. >> It's it's has a good run so far. Yeah, it's um it's it's it's yeah, it'll make it um the uh so so garden party. So, uh second day we woke up elevator um and elevator didn't work and um uh you know, just like the entire uh city of San Francisco did not have power. >> Correct. uh if I remember right at le because some kind of suicidal squirrel jumped in a transformer somewhere and like like which was very funny because you know from us building tech companies uh in in in a in a you know far reaches of the uh you know um um world here like invar Canada at this m moment being in San Francisco is like you know this is this bit of pilgrimage for people in tech and um there we are in a um you know high castle um of the technology industry with no socket in the entire district uh yielding any kind of electrons. So anyway, like so what we had to do is like pivot the team like I think we were opening we couldn't go into the building because the fire marshals told us that they were not sure that the sprinklers work because I mean I don't know why the sprinklers need electricity but because [clears throat] that seems like a bad idea to begin with but somehow we couldn't use the buildings and um we pivoted like the entire team just like said hey like let's move it in a parking lot and uh we we did impromptu things people found generators and um uh battery packs and uh you know uh portable PAS and stuff like this. And so, um, we I think we had to kill the conference. >> We killed it. What was amazing was I found out later >> why why we dwelling on this because I like just I think because it's like this is such a Shopify thing, right? Like it's because I'm pretty sure day two was better than it would have been with original planning and it would have been a great event any uh like even there. So like there's just something absolutely amazing by uh you know we have like thriving on change as a core value um ever from day one and um you know just there was no better example than that pivot in like a couple of hours making a better event um you know out of that situation. So >> I found out also that there were three other major tech conferences happening that day. So there were four conferences in total including ours. Three were cancelled. Shopify and this community got together and we created the world's greatest garden party. That that exemplifies this community. I love that. [applause] Do you remember what the first app store

looks like? I do. That was it. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Can you talk about that? Are you uh what do you think when you see that? Mapify. Mapify allows you to view all your customers instantly in a beautiful map, a static map. >> Yeah. >> I wrote all of those. >> You did? >> Y my test apps for >> Thank god you hired me shortly thereafter. Yeah. That's a new one. It looks way, way better. Do you know uh I don't if you know this, but did anyone yell it out if you know? Do you know what the longest running partner app is in the Shopify app store? Any guesses? No. It's Fetch app. 2013 they launched and they're still kicking butt. So, awesome. >> It's pretty amazing. Yeah. Uh more importantly, uh does anyone remember uh Toby's uh hatphase? Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you're bringing it back today again. I have the microphone. I can do whatever I want. Yeah. I mean, you you've aged, but but me on the other hand, look how great I still look the same. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. That's it. >> We going to Can I get back on topic? >> Yeah. Sorry. Back on topic. So, obviously, uh, yesterday we did a ton of talks. Hopefully you guys enjoyed the talks yesterday, the breakout sessions. Yeah, >> I thought it was amazing. >> It was an amazing day. Uh, I thought Atley and Vanessa, the way you guys opened was fantastic. I love the breakout sessions. I I really want to start obviously the the major topic has

been agentic and AI and stuff but um because you and I spend so much time together I get a sneak peek into how you yourself in a very personal way use AI and I'd love to kind of you share with the group what you've been doing on your own with your own you call it your clankers uh what you do with your clankers and how you've been adopting AI yourself because I think uh it exemplifies Shopify but also Toby >> okay like I mean I my um uh I I found this um the one weird trick to predicting the future um is actually just like live in everyone else's relative future because then you don't actually have to predict anything. You just look around and solve the problems appropriately to the stuff you already sort of encounter, right? So, um, this is like, you know, like from day one, like I don't know, there grew up in the '90s and we were like, um, like when the internet came to town, at least in Germany, this is sort of a way we talked about it. And, um, you know, you grow up in a as a teenager with like understanding like you're sitting on like an important truth. there was no um uh way uh like the future wouldn't be completely different um given what you know was possible and the fact that none of the adults around you seem to care about it didn't seem to be terribly relevant there um you know like sometimes it's like it's it's funny to look back at these things I I I recently saw a list which I really enjoyed of um all the movies that uh could own would would would be uh um uh over in one in it if cell phones would have already been invented yet you know like so you know sometimes like the past looks really funny from a from a modern technology perspective but as it happens it's harder to to predict so um you know William Gibson said future's already here it's just not evenly distributed um just immersing yourself in all the latest technologies is important um obviously the first of all this is fun second of all this an amazing excuse to my wife for buying or everything so um doing field research here and [snorts] um um so um then with AI I this is sort of supercharged, but you got to like sort of like fine-tune this. Like what specifically? >> You've had a couple moments I think that has just been you you're not someone who has their mind blown very easily. But you've had a couple moments. One is a >> I wake up right now and it's like, you know, it's like a cycle of you wake up, you see the craziest thing you have ever seen, you go back and do it again, right? >> Do you want do you want to share what you showed me backstage? Uh cuz I thought that was you you did you're like, "Hey, look at this casually." And I was like, "Dude, like that's kind of insane." >> Like I I just like look I'm I'm a um I'm having so much fun with um you know sort of open claw type of bro like like build. I think it's like I I I like I think if you haven't done this like um it really is very very worthwhile to just like go through a trouble of setting up an open claw like a like a like um an Hermes agent any of these kind of things. Um [snorts] there's services that can do it for five bucks. It's it's a mess like like a little bit but like it's a it's a glorious mess. It's a mess that looks like the you know internet mess of the '90s. So like I'm I'm I'm getting all sort of warms and fuzzies there. Like this is the tech industry I I fell in love with the um but like like so I'm I'm a maximalist on this. I I honestly think some of these uh experiences are some of the most uh profound and honestly compelling product experience I've had in my entire life. So um um I also uh went to the extreme of like basically giving access to literally everything like so um um I I I do it safely. I'm a perfect company CEO like I I I was a technologist. I write my own filter gateways [ __ ] like this. So, um but uh it's still first of all um ever since last uh you know you all know this September last year of December really um uh the models have gotten so good that they just constantly blow our minds, right? Like um especially Claude is like Claude is a little hacker. If you if you tell Claude you want something, it'll do it and uh sometimes in the most dodgy way possible. It's like absolutely hilarious. So um uh you know like maybe give you one uh example there like is um then um um uh you know like I was sort of initially slow. I gave it access to more more things. At some point I needed my um uh uh like I just had all sort of problems walking around in the house with like like dropping my like Wi-Fi and blah blah blah blah. So I gave it an API key to just like access to my UniFi system, my Wi-Fi system and like said like go fix it and it fixed it which is incredible. But like um uh the thing that was really really funny was like I uh you know I was talking about like medical thing. I came back from a sport event. I was like really really hurting. I'm like just like is it bad if these these parts hurt? And it like was like okay now it's just like it'll probably heal. Um [laughter] uh so okay. So, and then [clears throat] um so next morning I get a message from uh my my my um uh um open claw um and um he was doing a uh like workout that my professional trainer there we did a workout I got a message saying given that uh you know I had lower back pain after the workout that I'm clearly in right now um I should really go in the sauna so it turned the sauna on >> but your sauna is not connected to anything. So yeah, so I ended up having to go into logs to figure out how this happened. So like through the UniFi connection, it like figured out that there was there was a sauna. I mentioned Sona before at some point and so it actually um found it on the network found that it's like uh you know has a local access figured out how to like talk to it and turn it on and I'm like dude honestly I I was actually really touched. It was like one of the nicest things, you know, like so, you know, so so you just go to this incredible uh experience with these incredible events and so like I mean I have so many claw stories and um but like um yeah, it's just like again immerse yourself in the technology and and and sit with like the incredible things, you know, the biggest

change in the world here with with AI um is really that um like I I think incredible things happen in the world when um one of two things happens. Something that was currently like previously either really expensive or really hard becomes uh like you know 10 times cheaper or uh 10 times easier to do or um or if something that was previously impossible becomes possible. Those are the biggest shifts. And so um I think we have seen um all these three things happen at the same time here where like basically everything that was previously impossible is now just simply hard. A lot of what used to be very very hard is now actually uh easy and a lot of what was expensive is now is is now quite cheap um with maybe proviso that tokens uh quite something. So um uh uh hopefully that's temporary. We'll see. Um but uh you know that's like the most rich environment for innovation that is possibly imaginable, right? Like and so I think that's um it but again it feels like I I've I've had the privilege of seeing many many shifts in a industry. I've I've been there for again like just even the sort of initial contact internet. I've been um um there for you know the emergence of web 2. which was is sort of not documented this way, but really is like I think then the technologists of us who who were really really just incredibly interested in the web and its potential essentially raised our hands and said hey from an infrastructure level browsers broadband like and kind of um sort of uh depth of our understanding of a medium. I think we are here and we know how to make great systems. Um and um uh also you know maybe business model uh like with software service like that so all rolled in I think web two is under doumented but over like plays an over um important role there um because it gave essentially this world of technology the business model that uh it didn't have during which caused automatically uh you know the the com crash right the com crash was like all the promise was there literally every company it could launch was right Like every one of the business models made sense even no matter you can make fun of I know Pets.com all day but like pets.com was a totally sensible e-commerce store right like >> you became Chewy or something. >> Yeah. Exactly. So you just needed like um infrastructure that like like if your first order of business is uh you know pay a million dollars to Larry Ellison for getting an Oracle database so you can start programming then he's probably you're probably not going to connect with your market at at the price levels that they want. So um uh you know just but they were all right and so eventually this this started working and coming together and uh you know things that were previously impossible became possible like uh using credit cards securely uh became possible and so uh you know just this shift I think is worth tracking and then immersing yourself and just like playing be playful with it do shenanigans technology shenanigans are like like the the toys of the the crap people do on a weekend are the um uh like the multi-billion dollar companies of all, you know, and so it's like um >> crap people do on the weekends or multi-million dollar. It's totally true. Speaking of shenanigans, what you showed me on the way in here was you showed me you basically compared your schedule to your um heart rate and showed me which meetings you have increase your heart rate versus others. I wasn't on the top 10 list, >> so your our meetings are super chill. But that is amazing. Um but I I want >> exposure therapy for 15 years to one like [laughter] so um uh yeah like yeah yeah my my my uh um my clankers have uh access to my heart rate and uh you know like put it into a little um duct DB and uh warehouse because why not? I at some point destroyed it. I would like it to do it and since then it's been dutifully doing it. It's wonderful. I mean the the amount of shenanigans uh that are running right now in the background while we are sitting here on the stage for you is absolutely mind-blowing. >> I was with I was with Emily my um uh um uh wonderful assistant and I I showed her that like she's number three over people I have a most highest heart rate. >> Everyone wants to hear from the boss that their meeting raises the heart rate more than anybody else. >> Was doing the opposite. So So um anyway,

>> I want to talk about I want to continue on this theme of sort of the the pace of change because we have 2,000 people here. um our incredible partners, our community who have built their businesses alongside us. They've been, you know, shoulder-to-shoulder with us for for almost two decades now. I want to start to talk about the the double-edged sword for them in terms of how they, you know, they're watching Shopify move really quickly. They want to keep up and [snorts] they love the innovation, but they also want to make sure that they continue. as you kind of, you know, putting yourself in their shoes right now, how would you sort of think about ensuring that they stay they keep pace with all this crazy stuff that is happening here? >> Yeah, I I mean, look, I I love this community. Yeah, I think it's I mean it's so crazy uh from from my perspective at you know at some point you know we like again like since we invoking so much of the past and you seem to um want to lead us down a road here of nostalgia and whatnot like at at some point in like 2006 7 um like I I was working heavily on you know APIs with a few few of my friends there um um and um you know like we were like well like there's a lot of internal teams at at these companies uh you know this was a big part of our thesis was like um software that tries to be everything to everyone is software that no one ought to be using um or that is only being sold by doing um you know playing golf with a boss um um because it's completely disconnected from the consequences of uh actually having to use it. This is the kind of thing we were like really really upset with um and we thought was gumming up the software industry and which we appreciated. So we wanted to build um super high quality software that scales with everyone and these kind of things right. So, however, um, of course, if you want to be everything, like if you want every feature or you want to be able to help people with their missions, like you kind of have to build a lot of things. And we were like, let's build

infrastructure instead of features. And because infrastructure is composable, um, composibility to software is essentially what um, uh, is compound returns is to finance. So um if you build great infrastructure and invite um a community and of people who are just like really really close to the problems um then that that would work better as internal teams and the with the people we were talking um uh to but like if you can allow the internal teams um to uh you know go one step further and instead of making um a piece of software a one um like a one of one for one particular uh use case but like follow sort of a technological uh shape that Shopify took you know shop ids and like make it so that multiple people can use it and we create the um conventions then um I think we would follow our mission which is really to create more entrepreneurship in the world um uh even more closely because of course these internal teams might actually like sit on a real like insight they want something to exist for themselves why not make it really easy for them to share it then put this like um sort of terrible version first version of a uh a directory up and and and then allow them to tell each other about it. Right. So this is like at some point this happened there and um then you know being in a room with such like you're all such unbelievable impressive uh like builders and entrepreneurs yourself is like is incredibly gratifying. Right. So and um so yeah we we are standing like and and I love the way you put this. we are standing shoulder-to-shoulder. Um it's at the at the end of um um the the two best things you can possibly build uh uh in in a world that are durable are systems and uh and and uh systems of incentive specifically, right? Like um like so incentive like you can build okay one systems of incentive. Let's go with that. And so the um uh we are all standing uh shoulder-to-shoulder because all of us are doing the same thing. We are trying to help these incredible impressive entrepreneurs who are doing this incredibly brave and courageous thing of putting themselves out there by building a like a store, a business, a system usually in the face of as you all know like significant amount of opposition. There's a lot of people who tell you you shouldn't. Um and um uh they are doing their thing and they want like the kinds of people who are motivated enough to reach for independence are people who also want to do it their way and so be finding points of distinction is so important. Um we are trying to do as much as we can with our template systems but really at some point your business needs to be different because like putting it like like putting a different skin on top of the same business is not a different business. you have distinction for your products which we want you to spend all your time on. So we want to show up with as much supportive infrastructure as possible. We want to show up there with you get the software that like like it should just work and for anything that's like um a real reach where you're like ambitious about it or so you you can use we bring the infrastructure to you. you're like taking the other side of this particular LAU and uh converting it into something that's really perfect for what people are trying and creating this point of distinction. And so I think this just works so beautifully. I think what's really then going on um uh in the

current times on top of this is that um you know the like this is such a opportunity-rich space um and you know we were all so limited by you know the the the speed of um really building software um that uh now we can like this has been truly aumented um we we all know it we all feel it we don't need to spend time continuing thing we can talk about shenanigans that the AI can do, we don't need to talk about it sort of relative merit anymore. Um and um you know with that the like opportunity plus tooling leads to um like an explosion of creativity, right? And so um again we can give so much more distinction. We can give so much more um uh like variety. We can make the web so much more fun. Again, I'm sure you all saw um Ben and Vanessa then team's work um on you know kind of going back to the basics like saying hey you know you know it's really really really really great that browser let's actually like celebrate it fully instead of wrapping it in JSON and so um you know so there's like from our perspective we like let's you know go to the stuff that matters and um um you know like build opportunity space and invite everyone over because you know like the our corner of the internet is a pretty Good one. >> Well, I also think what we end up doing together is we very much end up sort of increasing the service area of entrepreneurship. Like if Shopify, you know, continues to create what most merchandise most of the time to get 100% product market fit, that's where this this this community, you know, uh lends a hand and jumps on board. You know, last night I was leaving uh it was raining uh yesterday evening. I was I was coming from this place to back to Summit and someone in this room pulled me aside. He's a partner of ours in BC and he said he was jumping on a call with a hardware company. Um, and the the founder said, um, it's going to be me and my CTO. And so they get on the call. I don't know if you're in the room. If you are, please, uh, thank you for this amazing story. But, so this this guy comes on the call and he says, "Oh, I need your help to help me, you know, build my Shopify store and I want to introduce my CTO." CTO comes on the Zoom. And it was his 13-year-old son. True story. Um, which is amazing. and the 13-year-old begins to start asking questions to this particular partner about the future of catalog and where what we can do with it and what type of incredible like this is a tool company with a ton of different SKUs. I I think one of the things that we've actually done together is we've talked about us being the guardians of the world's entrepreneurs. There's no way we can do it without this community. You guys help us create more of that uh more of that around the world. I want to talk about specifically catalog because I do think though that that does feel like you know you talked about web 2 2.0 you know, and and the beauty of it and the innovation there and it's underappreciated. But you've also said that like catalog kind of always should have existed potentially and it just it didn't. Can you talk about catalog and and and why you are so excited by this thing? >> I well just because it does a thing that

like I mean it it first of all it's perfect for our mission. like it creates more like like I think really really really great companies will be started on top of catalog because like look the internet never had this piece of infrastructure truly right like you could go and like build try try to build a search engine like um um uh for for for products but what you would what what um what that would have involved is using a piece of infrastructure that was created for uh you know information retrieval and it's just extremely different like and this Like one of the really fun things is like um in in this um journey of building catalog um um like it was wonderful to talk to you know we we brought on to Shopify a lot of people who have really been very very deeply involved with building most of the search engines that we all use every day. It's actually a very small group of people who um have you know built them at you know Google, Yahoo and other places. Um and uh um they they sort of like some you know they they get a really really sweet job building an index uh system and then um you know that's a very lucrative thing and they you know in some cases do the mojitos on the beach thing for a while until someone has a new interesting um uh uh you know search engine problem and um everyone's like really really game to finally make something directly for products because products are just very different. they aren't in like information is part of it but there's so much so many soft things in in and product like how fashionable is something is a question that actually depends on uh not just like I mean first of all the category um you know some like some parts of electronics are fashionable many cases it doesn't matter um so even understanding that is important but like it it actually depends on well first of all who's asking because like from my perspective most >> I am not fashionable but you fashionable in your perspective. Yeah. Yeah. It's like I'm like, you know, um so Right. Um um and um uh uh it also depends on where you are. Like it's like what's fashionable right now in like Milan is very very different from what's uh you know fashionable in >> Ottawa, Canada. >> Ottawa, Canada. >> Sure. And so um uh you know like so those are things like they are just not mathematical in the same way. There actually are like concepts very very napous concepts that exists only really in like sort of a space of like like in in the human sphere, right? Like they were not legible to computers in the traditional sense. But it turns out that now they kind of like become that because [clears throat] we are training um uh you know these these these models truly on everything that humans have written up to this point you know like and and there is a sense for like um these kind of nuances and and therefore it can be turned into a matrix multiplication at some point and so um you know that's a really really fun challenge. Anyway, this is the technical side why it was so fun to do this with again I I what I love most is like build uh really really like solve hard challenge with uh you know really really impressive people that we you know we go on a journey and we solve hard problems that's like I think that's that's a that's life's work stuff that's the best part of it um and so um uh so yay lucky to um what everyone now gets hopefully appreciate is we for the first time we built a product search engine that truly is actually built custom from the ground up from the first line of u C++ code by experts um that uh you know really deeply fell in love with the problem uh that that we posited and um um uh of course a book in progress lots of lots of things are shipping our internal like some of the internal uh tests and stuff are just like people sent me like these random prototypes which I'm like you you that's one of the most compelling like retail things currently that I can get to in a web browser and so and uh then we are not going to productize this right because this is actually not our job we want to like other people to to run with this because we believing strongly in main quests and side quests and from Shopify's perspective um making a thousand nuvo uh Amazon or like uh you know just like super bespoke community specific um uh experiences or just like making the web fun again in the most I don't know like crazy 3D whatever um uh retail experience is um I it just that's we want to help we want to be in the background pushing this in fact we want to try to get this as simple as possible again strong belief every time something that was previously impossibly hard every time that becomes easy and cheap or free like the world changes a huge huge amount around it in this particular direction that you that just got enabled and so we want this is our job and this I think it's an invitation to all of you to like really run wild with this because again the cost to prototype these ideas is like super low you can't you we made it so that you almost uh like stumble over a API key to the catalog system while just randomly using dev dashboard like we like we put it really really permanently it's like like just like >> yeah check this out you're one click away from it all of you and So um partly

because we want there to be play because we think the web is an unbelievable medium of self-expression um that uh is now just like really really open for creativity again. It's it's much easier to make it quirky. We are also trying to do this with our additions which show what's possible now in the web um which is just like it the platform is so unbelievably good and so underrated still. Um it's uh you know one of the um many main quests for Shopify. Well, this doesn't sound right. It's like straight on the main quest actually. Make the web absolutely like vibrant um and fun. Like there's literally no reason why um walking down Fifth Avenue uh and experiencing those retail experiences should be any less um entertaining than using the web in in in one of those incredible ways that I think the people in this room like might have right now in your head like maybe just listening to this you have ideas. And so I love that invitation. I love an invitation for this room to basically look at these primitives, look at these APIs, look at these >> that's stated like this like hey uh everyone needs your help. Um we are building a really really really awesome catalog. You have my promise that this is going to be one of those you build on top of this there's going to be just a rapid clip of stuff coming. Um there's tons of features. There's going to be a change log. Every single time the change log comes out like think about the inverse from your perspective. what could then what just became possible with that and um uh you know just build build lots of things uh and and and and I think there's going to be uh you know hopefully an um uh um probably 15 times iterated name of what is it right now >> yeah no it's dev it's okay it's fine somewhere you're the boss >> yeah like yeah um you know thriving on change right is a core value I said it already so we apparently >> we could also work on brand. Every time we have to rebrand things, it it also costs money. So, I think you should stick with this for now. >> You should stop with this. You know, I had one of those moments yesterday, those like mind-blowing moments that you have often. Um, you know, you were in Barbados uh recently. You needed an outfit and you actually built your own little like clanker. You you you use catalog to basically like figure out clothing for for >> like it wasn't even like this. You're right, but like um for some offsite, but like uh the like I I just got a message from uh you know, Vanessa and I think Torcha from the team that like they they I sent I sent them like this was January or whatever. Hey, go set yourself up an open claw and like make one of those skills and like let's let's let's do this for the internal catalog at the time. So, they just sent me the skill. So, I I linked it to my um um uh uh my clanker and uh said like, "Hey, learn about this skill that just became possible." And then uh um you know, go use it to uh buy me some clothes for for next time um next time get out here. And um it ended up sending me pictures back like you know just like of this which was like mind-blowing. Now of course you go outside there and see this incredible mirror which is like a million times cooler and this is like >> so it's only been 5 months. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well which is really like 10 years internet time at this point. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know but that mirror I I had one of those moments yesterday. I don't know if you guys have seen the the Trion mirror but >> definitely check that out. >> It it is it is unbelievable. And I literally walked by Boon pulled me aside look at it. Some of you know this but not that we're we pick favorite merchants but one of my favorite merchants is James Purse. I had that experience of I went to the mirror yesterday. I did the tryon thing. It was so mind-blowing. I literally facetimed James directly and I Daniel saw it and I was like, "Dude, you have to see this." Like the fact that these and that was like one thing of one thing of one thing inside of Shopify. But the idea that that retail and commerce are getting so rich and so interesting is is absolutely amazing. You you talked about the shoulder shoulder thing and one of the

things that Show of hands, how many of you went to the River presentation yesterday? It's it was It's it was >> I I asked a few of you you know uh why you went. It was one of our most attended talks. It was I mean obviously River is so interesting but some of you said you know part of what you're trying to do is figure out how to run your companies your own businesses better and and and more effectively. And some of you even brought up to me that you know help you understand culture of your own companies. I think you see Shopify the attention to detail. By the way if you don't know after tonight we're throwing like the world's greatest block party right in front. and we're bringing all of Shopify and all of you together and like you'll see sort of IRL culture uh and how we do it. >> Thank you Toronto for giving us the street. >> Yeah, by the way, closing down a street in downtown Toronto, unless you're FIFA, is really [ __ ] hard. Um so, um yeah, we we figured it out. Um it's going to be really fun. I want to talk about culture for a second. I want to talk about, you know, how you think about Well, can you just talk about Normandors for a second because I think the Norand Shopify Toby thing speaks volumes about culture. Do you guys know what Normand doors are? Some one person knows what Normand doors are. >> No, there's a bunch. That's cool. >> Can you explain what that is and why you hate Normand doors? >> I wonder um sorry you why Normand doors and how it relates to river. Is that what >> I I'll get there in a second doors. >> No, it's like look I think culture is like um culture is what uh other people call the sort of collective of experience of of a company. culture truly is like how how much do people actually care and uh therefore how much do they sweat the details um and then about you know like it's not about how you decide about every detail it's just did you care right like it's the the I think the net amount of your company that is sort of derived from uh just like uh orthodoxy matters right like you want distinction again this is like it's a big point you want Like the reason why people reach for independence is to gain sovereignty. These are big words but this is the chain you want independence so you can gain sovereignty. What sovereignty gives you is the ability to change what otherwise would be simply um uh derived from orthodoxy from p it would be path dependent would be the same right be sovereignty allows you ability to make things distinct and so um you like uh and and you shouldn't take this lightly you must use it because first of all it's an it's it's a muscle it's an exercise you can do things the same way how everyone does them that is possible, right? Like but the question even there is like did you come to this position from first principles or did you come to this position out of convenience and so at the end of the day I think what people call a culture is is is an exermented place that has made these choices actively and um uh then deci decided to uh you know especially put its own mark in some ways that worked and then abandon the ones that didn't because again like make doing things differently says nothing about it being better. It is just the minimum requirement for possibly making something better.

Different just means different. So better must be different because otherwise it would be the same. I'm talking axioms now. So that's a good place to start for first principle thinking. And so um so I think what worked in Shopify is that we like took this seriously. Uh details like the nom doors I don't think are important example but like it seems to be connecting with people. Nom doors are the things like the doors you walk up you uh like try to push on them and actually you were supposed to pull um makes everyone feel embarrassed which is insane because you got feel now embarrassed you you feel a negative human emotion because of skills issue of whoever made the [ __ ] door right like so that is so not okay at all right like it's like one of you know Shopify is like we design our product to um uh because we now people are often very fearful signing up for Shopify. They again they're putting this out there. It's a very public act. They don't they're not sure. Shopify is the it's we have the unbelievable privilege of almost never being anyone's plan A for their career, right? Like we are like the I I'm like something is happening in my life. Uh I'm I'm going to I'm going to double click on plan B. I always wanted to do this thing on the side, right? Like so they're kind of not sure. They kind of they don't they have a lot of questions. You know, this is the first time entrepreneurs like um uh like have no money, have no uh budget, have no of no background. They just have an ambition. Like we take this super seriously because my god, we identified someone, right? Like we found someone who's like there to uh try something crazy. And so our software should never ever make someone feel stupid. And frankly today it falls short because we are at the limit of what you can do given the complexities of uh the commerce world and and and and the traditional uh web interface. I think we took it extraordinarily far but it is not possible like the reason why uh I and Shopify and uh you know why river exists and these kind of things and like we excited is because we actually believe that our true mission the the mission of Shopify was actually uh if I if I'm perfectly honest entirely impossible given the technology until 4 years ago until 4 years ago >> it only truly became possible given the advances which is an unbelievable stroke of luck on our part um with AI because now we can actually you know take people by the hand and like actually bring them in their own unique context. We can't guess at what is in people's mind. Are they currently fearful? Are they excited? Like we we don't know how to talk to people correctly in the given situation they're in in the face like we we try super hard and we've always tried but um that's like it has to be one interface. can't change every so but um now we have the tools um that some we can always have a conversation and again this will premereate the product more and more and so on so on back to nomen doors um so doors don't get to make people feel bad about themselves right why do we accept this right and like again because we just sort of decided to accept it and that's sad right and so um so you decided to go around the entire company all offices and say if there's a Norman door it has to go >> yeah which is not something most founder CEOs you it's it's but it's not actually it's not important as like I mean I recognize it connects with people but it's really not any kind of special I didn't at some point say we need to make a statement here like it's just like um like I don't think people can make um uh the software I ask them to do of the quality that I ask them or encourage them to do um uh if they are surrounded by uh an environment that underperforms that quality like you just be need to be immersed in something that is so clear that the people who created that place cared that much about um to then care as much about the next step of what you're building. And so again like just not having nom doors is such a simple thing. And uh you know like here's the good news. If a door does this, you push again. It probably um has a handle, you know, like like something like this, like it's just like it it a head fix. You usually you can solve it by just removing a handle and just putting a push plate there, right? So it's like it's not exactly an expensive kind of end of >> No, but it does speak volume. It speaks volumes that if you want our company, our team to design, architect beautiful software, the things, the environments that they have around them needs to also reflect a certain uh common sense at the very least. But I also I want to bring this into River because I think River actually part of the reason why it was so well attended is because people that are building shoulder-to-shoulder with us in this crowd, they're also trying to figure out how to operate their companies, their internal operations at a much more efficient way. And River feels like um a step function change. Yeah. I mean, River is like I I think um um I I I believe 100% of people at Shopify have interacted with River. It's like um uh it's uh like over 7,000 uh weekly users. I think over 6 and a half thousand daily. It's just like it's like nutty. >> Yeah, we're all using it every day. >> Um so um and and again this started as a idea like a couple months ago which again this is what I mean like we are discovering things which will forever be amongst the most compelling products on planet earth uh with frequency right now. And again river is not our main quest. It just helps us succeed on our main quest. So therefore, we are sharing what we found so that other people can either make it their main quest or also benefit from it. And frankly, it's quite easy to put together. Um uh at at at this point like especially after you get the sort of directionality because they have like a very very large search function initially. Um so um yeah like I I think there's a lot of uh important aspects to it. I I don't think we need to get in in in into depth but again we like I wrote about um sort of what it does for me level we are sharing technical details on the implementation um so all the information is out there public domain um and frankly I other companies have built these things you're going to get a riverl like thing from a lab because this makes perfect sense as a product extension um uh in the next couple I I I would say half year I don't know this for sure but um um that that's just like seems actually like why why would we not? So um uh but yeah, River helps us uh you know a lot and again it also inspires us right like River was extremely ambitious but like ambition

like like let's you know we have like we hit a couple of topics that make a make a um uh you know beautiful triangle here. We talked about um like ambition which is always a you know a big topic in communities like this. We talked about uh systems and care. Here's how those composed like a lot like I think ambition is overdocumented because ambition is cheap, right? like it's at the end of the day um you you can just say ambitious words and it's like again described as ambitious um uh it's it's there's an execution challenge that immediately follows right like so um and uh uh but it is a governor for how what you can accomplish you can like um uh it and it does like I I'm going to minimize it like it does require courage to say ambitious things uh and and and and especially publicly and then follow through on this. So this gives you a high watermark. Um I think under discussed is what happens in the downside. You can rise to your ambition but you will fall to your systems. Um so like the systems building aspect is enormously comp uh important in anytime you're building a company or really anything systems of um systems of incentives of course but also technology systems infrastructure and so on is uh like all aspects uh here. So you raise to your ambition um but you fall to the quality of your systems. How how do you travel to the you know top percentiles if within the spectrum? That's care. How much do you actually care? >> Yeah. The give a [ __ ] factor >> is a give a [ __ ] a factor like you you create a space in which you could end up winding up. It's a superp position that you want to collapse to the highest possible point on the spectrum. And um that again depends on the care. Um, and the care is then channeled into details. And to wind this all up in the stack to culture, what other people call your culture is just the observation of how much the company generally manages to to to care so much about the details so that it ends up as close as possible to its ambition. And what's wonderful about this whole thing is if you zoom out one more level, all of that is also a system. you know, it's like a self-reinforcing loop, which again is going to be one of those terms we gonna be so sick of hearing in 12 months from now, next time we on stage here. Um because it's going to be the absolute core of what you will hear from every AI lab. Um but really the reason is a good one. Self uh reinforcing uh systems, recursively learning systems, recursively improving systems um are the most powerful things in the world. And you know which one is best is a company. Like every good company, every company that people admire is a uh is a recursively self-improving entity of people who have good systems, potentially great systems um that they can fall back on, but also have ambitions to uh mean that what they do truly matters. Uh there there's at least a thousand true fans out there who uh you know just would do anything to uh get to keep access to the uh to to the product or or be able to be uh customers or you know just like this life is enormously better in their own minds and objectively because this uh entity exists and then who can figure out some form of energy to channel into truly like caring and sweating the details. figuring out where it's okay to just like run with analogy or run with orthodoxy and where it's important and um uh lordbearing to just like out care everyone because it just like truly just speaks to you. It's the thing that like you think about and want to play with and and and and mentally just like um tinker with in your mind when you're having a shower in the morning or commute to work or so and so like the the the falling in love with problems like and I think this is actually like a like a good place to sort of um uh get back to because it's like you know we yesterday talked about Um like you know we we running a community and sometimes we have to make hard choices and there's like no choices that on the individual level of experiences of everyone who's building on our platform is going to be a right one from there. But sometimes you know like again we can rederive what we need to do from like what is best for merchants. We stand shoulder and shoulder um to uh help them and that can never be compromised right like this is the thing that we all working on. So um we need to uh you know encourage the kinds of things that are helping merchants uh succeed um and uh we want to celebrate those kind those kind of things right um you know sometimes that means there's uh uh we need we need to ship a feature right now because something is now something that everyone needs um uh we we we will always strive to do it as infrastructure and as uh conventions so that it leaves the largest amount of um uh surface area for the app platform and our partners and theme developers to go through this of bre first search over the possibility space to find the just perfect solutions for the people they are building for and and talking with. But sometimes it means you have to ship something that might uh like negatively impact an area. And so how this ends up um uh relating to the things I've said

earlier is because I I have found um that uh one of the largest distinctions um I think when you know I'm you know in interviews of like hiring people when I'm working with teams um I just um found that sometimes I interact with people who are just like in love with a solution first to a And and I I really admire this too, right? Like it's it's it's like uh it's it's a specialization and it's a >> but then you speak tell work with people who actually fell in love with a problem. >> Totally. Yeah. It's different. >> It feels different. It feels different and it's giving them such superpowers because you know what it does suddenly everything that happens in the world every new technology that comes out everything Shopify ships every change lock every um defe you said >> defev great um uh is like it's all opportunity it's not threatening anymore because you're the kind of person who fell in love with a problem worth solving and the beautiful thing about problems worth solving is that problems kind of never get solved >> especially one of the problems I think we all solve together which is this problem of like increasing the service area of entrepreneurship right like it is the most positive sum type of problem to solve and it's never done it it just evolves there's more entrepreneurs more types of partners it it's a remarkable vertical of of a problem >> I completely I mean obviously I dedicate life to this my entire adult life it's been really Shopify and so it it's because we celebrate um you know how you know how planet earth gets more vibrant is by people well creating gifts for each other. >> Yeah. >> And launching them into this incredible piece of infrastructure that we never truly acknowledge which is the free markets around us. And like people just create products and then make them as like gifts for each other in the market. If other people think that this gift was worth sharing, they will then purchase it. What What's that? That is not just a transaction. that is a vote for that like the people who purchase it vote that the future needs to uh involve more of exactly that thing like I'm voting for not just you as an entrepreneur um you like for um parting with the money I made uh I I worked hard for um uh to instead own the thing that you have probably spent a huge amount of uh unreasonable hours uh toiling away on creating um you vote for everything uh that made this product. In the physical world, there's of course you you're voting that uh you you deem postal services as like a valuable thing. You vote you're voting for the supply chain, all the parts and like there's like layers and layers layer layers of employment uh that that that that just deres from from from this vote. In fact um uh you know just like this is it's the most part the biggest part of democracy actually is voting in this way because every time in a infantessimal way you purchase anything the world tomorrow rearranges itself to be slightly more so to do this kind of thing and so it's beautiful to be part of this kind of thing. So like it's just like every time uh this is where you know like and and and since this is like becoming the most uh self-referential talk ever um like >> I love it the nor the the Norman doors just really really matter in in in in in this world because again give people the opportunity to vote for better doors like if every building would have two doors next to each other one of the Norman door and one one isn't very quickly everyone would learn to go to the one that isn't like so um and we can't because wherever is the architect is uh doesn't care about doors and has a monopoly on choosing the doors. So uh you know we we got to like do better than that sometimes. So we can correct the world in in these tiny little ways. But truly, we're just building for incredible people that um through their work um you know, just rearrange uh the the the the the not not just their own lives but everyone else's. And like maybe I'll end on this because this is like super angry red at this point. Um

one more thing to AI. Um I believe very very strongly that AI is um uh like it will allow us to make like a do a lot of incredible things with Shopify will allow all you to do way more incredible things um like with Shopify and with and beyond. Um I think the group of people who will benefit the most from it in the world are the entrepreneurs. Um it is the most AI safe job in the world by far and uh because again it's a job uh like we will need more people to make things um it is also the most AI benefiting job because again people come with different priors and being able to just like access all this um cumitive knowledge at a fingertips through side tip through sidekick or any other way is is in is incredible. So I I think you know there's a lot of discussion about you know what's the future like and so on and people are extremely uh you know in in some quarters are quite um you know concerned but like it it what you should expect is that there's some like truth to this that the largest companies are going to be smaller and yes this will impact employ um employment and here's how by allowing more people to start companies. I think the power of small teams is like going to be absolutely like it's it's one of those factors that everyone kind of ignores right now but like but the quality the craziness of project that can be accomplished by the tiny team has in in our corner of the world in technology industry always been much more evident than in most other places. Um there's no like four people team in a coffee shop building an oil refinery for obvious reasons, right? like we could build Shopify and um so um this will happen to much more of a of of a world right now and you know what happens when small teams that are super line deeply care um work together hard on a problem um that's worth solving magic total magic >> yeah I love that well two things before we sort of end one is you're going to be back here actually on this stage to talk to Garmmo from Verscell at 1 one uh 110 today so come back for that as well um this is going to be an amazing talk But I I I I just want to kind of end on this one thing you said is that this idea of entrepreneurship, you know, the one the the major ven diagram between everyone at Shopify, everyone in this crowd and the people we serve is is this concept of entrepreneurship. It is this deeply meaningful thing that we all connect to. All of us have been touched by it in so many different ways. And I think it's a real wonderful thing that we all the things we are all building all of you and all of us. It is to help more of entrepreneurs exist to help them scale more to find their own versions of success. It feels like the most wonderful way to find your life's work. >> Totally agreed. And and again, we think we're going to go in an absolute golden age of this now with because it's like it's like it's already like why I'm super excited about retail like the the part of entrepreneurship that is in like Shopify or retail entrepreneurship is because it's it's actually the most participatory version of entrepreneurship. to one you like that required the least amount of um you know my one my part of entrepreneurship building a tech company required me having to sequester myself my entire teenage years to cultivate my ability to write software and so that's um without time machine was impossible to access back in those days and we are now actually um creating more ability in in more spaces for people to um uh go for for it. It's a ultimative uh revenge of ideas guy like and um um so it's like this is this is a really really wonderful change in uh in in in the world and and and I think we need to take this very seriously again the world rearranged itself by uh uh the products that exist again the product we want to launch in the world is the tool that people can use to um help themselves to the businesses that they were dreaming of and hopefully inspires them to reach even further and higher and increase their ambition and their care as as they go along. And so, um, because that changes swivel significantly, again, you have more prize, more pranks, more value, more gifts that we for each other. And, um, so that just feels like such a damn good thing that it's worth dedicating a career to. I totally agree. To all of you, we just want to say thank you again for building with us, shoulderto-shoulder. Thank you for being ride or die with us, some of you, for many, many decades. We do not take it uh for granted that all of you have built your companies, your businesses, your life's work next to ours. And uh we thank you for your partnership and let's keep [ __ ] going. Thank you so so much. >> Thank you so much. Thank you so much. [applause]